You know, you think you’ve been clear about something. You write about it in posts, pages, and comments over and over and over on your own blog and on others’ blogs. You would think with the literally thousands of words you write on something that at least some part of that would come through to the listener. Apparently not.
Even when I preface a comment with “I know I screwed up. I know this is all my fault and this is all my doing. I know my wife didn’t ask to be put in this situation” that’s not enough for people to understand that I take full responsibility for the severe damage I’ve done to my marriage and the excruciating pain I’ve put my wife through. They ignore or discount my taking of responsibility and understanding and focus only on what I’ve done. To some, I will only be a cheater and anything I try to say is only to defend my indefensibly actions or to try to con people (into what is never made clear) or do some other nefarious thing.
I try to help people. I try to give them the benefit of my experiences. I try to play some small part in helping to heal other’s marriages. That’s not what I set out to do when I started this blog, but I found that I have a real passion for trying to help people in similar situations.
Yes, I believe part of helping people is saying things they don’t necessarily want to hear. Things like “If you want to save your marriage, you are going to have to forgive. You are BOTH going to have to work on it, not just the guilty/responsible party. It’s not fair, but if you insist on fair you’re going to lose your marriage.”
And what I get back is “It’s all the cheater’s fault! It’s unfair!” Well no shit, that’s what I just said! With all I’ve written about concerning responsibility, repentance, pain and trauma, do you really think this comes as a surprise to me?!? Of course I know this. I’m saying it not because I’m ignorant but because I’m trying to save people’s marriages.
I do think God is using me to help people, but there are days when I think “It’s not worth investing myself in other people’s marriages and recovery.” There are some people whom I cannot reach because they will not listen to a cheater. It makes me sad when these people go around dispensing terrible advice and get thanked for it.
It’s enough to make me want to go back to my original plan of just blogging into the silence or to just shut this thing down for good. It makes me think I’ve got enough trouble in my life without caring about other’s lives. I just don’t know. /rant
Isle of A Man 
I’m just going to throw this out there, but I don’t think they don’t want to listen because you were “a cheater”. They don’t want to listen, because they aren’t mentally/emotionally mature enough to hand the truth you write.
The truth is the bulk of recovery DOES fall on the shoulders of the betrayed. No – it’s not fair. But, none of us have been promised a fair life.
People either want to recover or they don’t. If they want to recover they will do the hard work of forgiveness. If they don’t want to recover, they will spend years being full of anger and bitterness, which will destroy not only their marriage but also them…and the affair wins.
That doesn’t fall on you.
It falls on the shoulders of the betrayed.
Keep writing. You post good “stuff”.
LikeLiked by 4 people
I hope you don’t close your blog. How or why I stumbled upon it I cannot clearly recall, but you are honest and you accept responsibility for your role in wrecking your relationship. I can understand how hurt your wife is/was by the affair, but she has chosen to forgive you and work at demonstrating it and strengthening and improving your marriage. You made the choice to confess your betrayal and work hard at repairing the damange you have done so as well. And it’s hard, it can be exhausting and overwhelming and feel hopeless sometimes, when it does not seem to be working or is just so dang difficult to keep trying. But every day the process begins anew, and maybe you felt hopeless yesterday, but today the world looks a little different, the weight of the affair not so unbearable. Like any recovering addict will tell you, one day at a time.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I’m not planning on closing this down. It’s tempting at times when I get disappointed, but it has helped me tremendously and I know I’ve helped others too. I’m thankful for readers like you who do get me or at least are willing to see me as a person who is trying to do the right thing.
LikeLike
It’s tone. The “I’m responsible but…” in the tone. Some cheaters manage to sound utterly totally remorseful but many don’t. You sounded more remorseful in the beginning to be honest, despite the blindspot that you refuse to see your other woman as despicable which looks like disloyalty to your wife frankly. Betrayed people are not in the same position as you. We never will be.
And while a completely unfair burden falls on us, it’s true that all the *work* falls on the cheat. And I say that having had a relatively successful 3 years of reconciliation so I’m not speculating. I did nothing except be me and not kick him out for 18 months. He did all the work. As he should. And he knows it. And he is grateful. In the second 18 months I’ve done a little, but again mostly his work. He will have to keep proving himself for a long time and he knows it. He will occasionally get down about it and then say very clearly that it only adds to his remorse, he brought it on himself and for nothing but a bit of narcissism.
So maybe instead of criticising people who don’t read you as you would like you should see there’s a point. Even if you don’t agree. Why you’re ranting about people who don’t think you have your priorities straight is beyond me. Surely you have more to do for your wife.
LikeLike
I admit that I sometimes make errors in my tone. I think part of it is I’m a man (but I can change. If I have to. I guess). I’m also an INTJ, so it comes with the territory. However, I do try to monitor and moderate my tone. I usually write a comment 2-3 times before I hit post. However, I would hope people would take into account the whole of my writings instead of assuming the worst of me based on one poorly worded comment. For that matter, I would hope people wouldn’t rush to judgement about me in areas where I haven’t written anything.
As for your final paragraph, the thing that really irks me is when I agree with the commenter in whole or in part, but they assume I’m just another unrepentant cheater trying to make excuses and shift blame. As for why I had my little rant, I thought that was pretty self-explanatory from the post itself. I don’t like being unfairly criticized for thinking things I don’t think. Don’t worry, my rants do not detract from my quality time from my wife. That’s why I don’t post in the evenings.
LikeLike
Regarding tone, I don’t know that you can change it honestly. I think what comes out is genuine and if it sounds like you are defending Scarlet then it means you don’t really have your wife’s back. Pretending to doesn’t change that. I’m a big believer in Yoda: do or do not, there is no try. I was the same with Paul. At first (for 6 months) he would “try” to treat me as well as he treated the whore. Never got him very far. When she turned bunny boiler and he was hit by the lightning that she was a horrible person? Suddenly he said everything right because he meant it. Shame it took her having to show her colours explicitly. It’s not like she had changed. She was always that person. He gets that now. So I think tone comes when you get it. Not before.
LikeLike
Just ignore them. It’s amazing to me that in my time in the blogosphere–roughly a year–the vast majority of people make massive progress emotionally. There are a select few though, who never do. Nephila, Pablo’s wife, Shattered, Exercising Grace. They never heal, they never get better, they stay bitter and angry and ready to lash out at anyone who says anything they don’t agree with, whether or not it is reflective of that person’s experience. They insist they are the expert on everything, no one can disagree, every WS and OW has to follow the same stereotypes. They write the same things over and over and over again.
The point of all of this is to say that when you take a step back (which I am able to do now, I wasn’t able to 6 months ago) you can see that really they are not very important to your recovery. They are not your wife, no more than I am Scarlett. Just remember that this blog is for you, it is for your therapy, for your ability to work through your emotions. This is your space. I let them get me riled up out of the principle of the argument way too many times. Stay focused on you and your recovery and just ignore them.
LikeLike
I have considered the possibility that there’s a certain amount of “survivor bias” going on. That is to say, the blogs that last a long time and/or are not deleted are the ones where the blogger is unable or unwilling to move on and heal.
My wife still hurts and always will, but there is no bitterness in her. In some ways she has actually healed faster than I have. I can’t see her writing a blog at this point except maybe as a way of retelling how she healed. I don’t say that to criticize, because I know people heal at different rates and some people have more to heal from. I only mean if my wife had started a blog a year ago, I think she would have shut it down by now. At the very least the tone would have changed significantly.
I do strongly agree with your statement regarding stereotypes. If there’s one thing I’ve learned in talking with dozens of cheaters and betrayed spouses it’s that there are as many differences as there are similarities in each person’s story. Pain, repentance, and recovery look different with different people.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Very true. My blog lasted five months, then I felt well enough to turn it off. I frequented my regular blogs for another month or so, but now rarely even think of checking.
Not that everything in my life is healed related to the affair–far from it. But what I needed from expressing my pain and telling my story was fulfilled. I am very glad I wrote a blog, it helped me enormously. Now when I deal with Jack–something that will happen from time to time for the rest of my career–I am stronger, more centered, more reflective of what we have both been through. I am completely confident in how we chose to handle things–with great love and appreciation. Our relationship ended out of respect for each other, not out of accusations and hatred.
From what I have seen of the WS, there is so much guilt and so much “required” of you in respect to your wife, these blogs are the one place you can go to talk about how you really feel. So embrace that at the same time you embrace your wife. There are times she is going to be a raging bitch in months and years to come, some related to the affair and some totally separate from that fact. The problem is that now you can’t fight back. So this is a safe place to vent–as long as you ignore those who can’t recover and will forever throw stones at you
LikeLiked by 2 people
I hope there comes a day when I have other places to share the thoughts and feelings that are “not helpful.”
My wife is an amazing woman. For the most part, the raging bitch (your words, not mine) rarely comes out. One thing I have learned is that there’s a difference between fighting back and calmly, lovingly standing my ground. Because you’re right – I can’t fight back. But that doesn’t mean I have to live in the dog house the rest of my life either. I’m not showing love by becoming a detestable doormat. Still working on striking the right balance, but my wife is a patient, kind, loving woman while we both figure it out.
LikeLike
gosh, i should have explained that my “raging bitch” comment came from a point of view that we are all that way sometimes, i didn’t mean to criticize her in any way. please accept my apologies if it sounded like i was judging her, i was thinking more of the everyday stresses, that now will have a different color to them
LikeLike
No apology needed, but thanks just the same. I knew what you meant, I just make a point of never calling my wife that, even as a joke. I’m not offended and I doubt she would be either.
LikeLike
Good. You know sometimes you make a comment, then you go back and think–no, that was’t what I meant!!
Have a good night
LikeLiked by 1 person
You, too. And thanks for commenting.
LikeLike
Of course OHC has to lash out at people who judge her. She can’t take the fact that all OW are relevantly identical. They’re all doing a terrible thing which they should feel deep remorse for not because they don’t get what they want but because they have a victim. There are very few OW who get that but I know a couple. One follows my blog. One I’ve interacted positively with on her blog.
Cheaters only come in 2 kinds: players and fools. And then after the event, they vary only by depth of remorse.
I think blogs rise and fall with a lot more variation that cheaters. I never blogged during the crisis. It’s afterwards that I like to look back and make sense of it. If you’d met me in 2011 you’d have found a steely determination that would probably scare you. But my opinion of cheaters hasn’t changed. How could it? After all right and wrong haven’t swapped over.
This change OHC thinks we don’t make…that’s the one where we stop calling evil evil, and you’ll know when that happens we have seriously drunk the kool aid.
There are truly remorseful men out there who I would only encourage. Erin is married to one. I’m married to one. Paula is married to one. Very few people meet that standard.
No, OHC isn’t Scarlett. But she has done to someone what Scarlett did to your wife. And if Jack had an ounce of decency he’d hate her for it. Of course he doesn’t have an ounce of decency. He had an absolute smear, just enough that he didn’t go further. That’s a very low bar.
I will never apologise to anyone for having good boundaries and high standards.
LikeLike
And this is where you and I fundamentally differ. It’s not that I somehow think adultery is right or okay or even excusable. But instead of viewing cheaters as evil, I view them as captives to their sin. They are in need of repentance, not condemnation. There is only one type of cheater: the fool. We were all fooled by something or someone into doing an evil deed. Yes we chose it, but we were fools for choosing to betray.
From your comments here and elsewhere it’s clear you hate cheaters who have not lived up to your standard of repentance. Not only that, but you despise other women who do not demand your standards.
Nephila, you are in need of repentance. Hate is a sin. Jesus said the man who hates another has committed murder in his heart. It’s time to give up the hate and forgive as Christ forgave. Love your enemies and pray for them. If you speak the truth, then speak it in love or not at all.
LikeLike
LOL. I don’t think cheaters are my enemy. And I don’t burn in hatred of them. They’re just kind of disgusting until they get it. There’s still hope for you to get it. Maybe.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Actually, you DO think they are your enemy and have told me multiple times it is your purpose to come after me! Sad…
LikeLike
Evangelism isn’t going to work coming from a cheater either. No standing. And I’m under absolutely no obligation. Besides, you mistake the opposites. The opposite of love is not hate or (as purported by cheats, indifference). It is disgust. Disgust is what Paul and I both feel for Argyrodes, and for what he was like then. And to not feel disgusted by that is to condone it. No amount of bible speak changes that.
LikeLike
Then I wish you the best of luck. If you cannot be converted by a sinner, then you cannot be converted. I will pray for you in the hope that “Bible speak” will one day change your heart.
LikeLike
He should feel disgusted by his own behavior, but to feel disgusted by her is to be a hypocrite. It’s not healing, it’s a desperate attempt to look better than he really is, to cover for the egregious abuse of power on his part. It’s sad
LikeLiked by 1 person
Jack doesn’t hate me because he blames himself. I don’t hate Jack because I blame myself. We both know we were willing participants, to hate the other person would be an unbelievably cowardly act. Pointing fingers for your own behavior is cowardly and any man or woman in an affair who does that is a coward and a liar. Since you have never been an OW or a WS, you have no right to say whether that is true or not, you simply don’t have the experience. You have a viewpoint, but that viewpoint is biased and deeply emotional, not rational or based in truth.
If I were you, I would be disgusted if my husband blamed the OW, who wants to be married to a man who claims to have been “tricked” into having sex with his subordinate? That story reeks of a cover up. At least be a man and own your mistakes
And I don’t lash out at people who judge me. I feel very sorry for those of you who don’t recover. You live on the dark edge of the world and that’s sad. Most people move on and live their lives without hatred or judgement. They see their own flaws and the flaws in other and learn to forgive. So no, I don’t lash out at you, I feel sorry for you and your family because I am convinced you will never heal, never recover
As always, I hope for you, your husband, and your children that at some point you find peace.
LikeLiked by 1 person
No OHC he’s never used her as an excuse for his behaviour. He hates her for her behaviour on it’s own merits. And he hates his own behaviour on it’s own merits. You don’t hate either behaviour. That’s very telling. I live in a place where right is clear and wrong is not condoned. Lack of judgment isn’t a wise thing to aspire to, people who lack judgment of evil end up doing evil. Just like who don’t judge racism and homophobia end up condoning it. And cheating does a lot more damage than the less virulent forms of racism and homophobia.
I don’t owe anyone forgiveness. I owe myself a future, and that’s all. And I have that. If you were actually “sorry for me” you’d be cowered by your guilt at what you did to jacks wife. You aren’t. And that says it all.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’m done engaging, I respectfully disagree and I hope peace to your family
LikeLike
But to be consistent, he should hate not only his behavior but himself as well. Otherwise he’s a hypocrite. It must be nice to live in a place where everything is black and white and people are either good or evil. Unfortunately we live in the real world where everyone is bad and we all need forgiveness. You say you don’t owe anyone forgiveness and you have certainly not given it, even after your husband has debased himself and followed your ridiculous standards of repentance. THAT is very telling indeed.
LikeLike
He doesn’t ask for it. He definitely wouldn’t forgive it in himself or her. I think he does hate himself. The different is he can control him, but not her. So going forward from 2011 he has been able to not be the person he was. She’s still the same though as she shows us every few months. He is consistent. And I think most people are. So if you don’t hate scarlet I suspect you don’t really get how bad your actions were either.
LikeLike
Well said. To hate the OW is to hate one’s self, only more cowardly. I forgive Scarlet for her part in wrecking my marriage and I have deep pity for her own brokenness, but I don’t blame or hate her. I could have stopped what happened at any time, but I was a fool and a coward. What I don’t get is how this doesn’t sound like repentance to some people. Why must they add hatred to it in order for it to be “real?”
LikeLike
Disgust. They must add disgust. You’re the one who talks hatred. I don’t think I’ve ever said I hate Argyrodes. I just find her beneath contempt. But no, it’s not remorse that you sound like in this reply. It’s condoning. Oh she was in a bad place, poor thing. It’s your wife who deserves the compassion, not scarlet. Scarlet knew exactly what she was doing and did it because she wanted to. If she’d punched your wife you wouldn’t be so minimising. Seriously. And what she did is a lot worse than punching. And it doesn’t take away from what you did. At all.
LikeLike
Someday I hope you can find compassion. Until then, you will continue to swirl in your despair. There is a reason that 3 years out you are still trolling blogs and spewing hatred. It’s because your approach hasn’t healed you in any way. If you were healed, you wouldn’t be here and you would recognize that people recover in different ways. I think a little more time spent on how you feel about yourself would get you to a better spot. Stop fighting a battle you won’t win–not because people are so terribly awful, but because they won’t fit your strict guidelines. Don’t you want to feel better? Don’t you see that what you are doing doesn’t heal you or anyone else? In fact, I believe it harms you and your family. Take a month off and focus on them instead of bloggers you hate. See how much better your life is when you focus on your marriage and your kids
LikeLike
Someday I hope *you* find compassion OHC for your victim and the victims of those like you. If you ever do you will be crushed under the weight of shame, guilt, horror and remorse. I don’t expect it to happen.
I disagree completely with you self-serving assessment of me. I am a witness. I don’t try to “fight a battle” against cheaters. I am simply a witness. The person who says no that’s self indulgence rationalisation. The person who puts the victims first. I’m well aware it won’t stop someone cheating (and thinking well of the Ow is still cheating). That’s because of what they are not me.
You have no idea how I live my life. You don’t even have the window of my blog anymore (not that that made you feel bad for what you’d done either, I seem to remember you taunting me that you would try to make more nasty triggers for me and others). Which is pretty pathetic really. As if I would care what you did or what you thought of me?
It’s actually really interesting how much hate is a word thrown around by people criticising me. I don’t tend to use it. Maybe that’s a sign you don’t have a clue. And you won’t while you have no conscience. C’est la vie.
LikeLike
Bye, Nephila. You’re not being a witness, you’re being a bully. What else should I call someone who spends all day everyday filling up bloggers’ spam boxes with your hate? You may not use that word, but we all recognize hate when we see it. You already have two blogs. You can’t have mine, too.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Openheart, please do not use my name. I get it, that you are alone and hurting. You regret your choices I am sure. Your blog is closed, I don’t comment on it anyway. If you choose to see me as bitter, angry and unhealed? That is your choice. The TRUTH is, I come to the blogs for support when I am feeling down and depressed over what I have been through. And it is a LOT. Two years after the affair, the whore still cyber-stalks and harasses me AND my kids whenever she can. For this reason, I can say that I probably “sound” angrier sometimes than I actually AM in real life. As time goes on, I visit the blogs less. I contribute less. Healing continues every day.
As for my husband and I, we are doing very well. He has done the hard work of counseling to figure out how to deal with the depression that led him down the wrong path to begin with. He is the man he was for over twenty five years prior to his affair. I am a blessed woman. I have a man who loves me, and really sees what he has in our marriage and family. I have four beautiful children, that are also healing from this mess. They are thriving students, athletes and all-around great kids.
Anonyman, I don’t think I have commented on your blog before but I will say here that you have some good insights into the mind of a spouse who has cheated and repented of that. I have enjoyed reading your blog, but not if it is going to be a place where someone like openheart is going to come and flame me in a conversation I had no part in. That’s rather low behavior.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’m glad you enjoy the blog and get something out of it. It sounds like you’re recovering well, but I know what you mean about sounding angrier (or more depressed, or just different) when you comment.
As for OHC, I don’t want to get into the habit of moderating comments. So far my commenters have been pretty cordial towards each other (with the exception of one in particular) so I haven’t needed to. You’ve respectfully and calmly asked not to be mentioned by name, and I’m going to ask OHC to respect that. Whatever history you two have, I hope you can work it out. But if you can’t, I ask that you and OHC only address each other directly and keep it respectful. That doesn’t mean commenters can’t disagree, but I expect them to be respectful as far as possible.
LikeLike
It would be an interesting blog post to explore the emotions that drive posting. I would imagine that most of us blog or comment when we are feeling particular highs or lows of recovery and need the support of like-minded friends. It really can give a false impression of healing or lack of healing. It’s just a small snapshot in time.
LikeLike
I am glad you are happy, good luck to you. I am alone, but that does not mean I am hurting. I have long believed it is better to be alone than with someone for the wrong reasons. That is no judgement on anyone else, it is just what is right for me
Much like you, I probably sound more distressed than I am. Jack and I are no longer together, but he still supports me in my career when needed and we have reached a state of rare but friendly interaction. I have an extremely strong career and many friends and family who love me. I am strong, blessed and, on most days, happy.
My comment to Isle was mainly to concentrate on what’s important to him in writing the blog and don’t pay attention to those who detract, whoever they may be. I am sure that would be your advice to any of your fellow BS, I’m not sure it should be that different to anyone else seeking healing on their own blog
LikeLike
Yes, absolutely my advice to anyone who blogs would be to do so for your OWN healing and your OWN reasons. I don’t recall EVER posting on Isle’s blog before, let alone writing anything that would detract from his healing. That is why it was puzzling to me that my name would be mentioned here. I can only speak for myself, but I choose the blogs I read carefully. While I want to be a source of support to those who are hurting, I also don’t need to upset myself for no reason and derail my healing in any way. I read VERY few blogs written by spouses who have cheated. I haven’t read very much of Isle’s blog, but he seems to have a genuine desire to repent what he did and guide others away from that path. Whether we agree on every point or not is irrelevant (for me), it is commendable that he appears to take a strong stance against cheating. For the most part, my feeling is that the blogs of former cheaters are for them to work through and unless it is someone who is expressing true remorse? I am not going to waste my time. I will add though, that I have learned something even from the most vile and unrepentant cheaters and other women. I guess it’s true….if you can’t be a good example, be a horrible warning!
And lastly, I will add that I don’t blog for the simple reason that my husband asked me not to do so. After d day, he supported me coming to the blogs to read, comment and seek support. He was not comfortable with me blogging and I have chosen to respect his wishes on that.
LikeLike
Nicely said
LikeLike
Funny thing happened before I read this tonight, my husband and I were discussing your blog and he made a comment about one of your entries. I was somewhat shocked. We had both read it completely differently. We plan to both read it again. Depending on your viewpoint, these blogs can be read so differently. I have to add that I, the betrayed, had read it much more positively. Doesn’t always happen, but had to say in this case. I’ve been reluctant to comment since I hooked my husband up with your blog. It’s just awkward. Remember you have no idea at what point people are in recovery when they post. Even if it has been years, a trigger could have just occurred. It has been helpful to you. Stick with it.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Welcome to Casa de Man! I’m glad I’m stimulating some good conversations. Of course now I’m curious which post it was and what his dissenting opinion was. There really is an art to communicating clearly and unambiguously in written form, especially when the subject matter is already highly subjective. I make no claims to having mastered the art, merely to have attempted to overcome my deficiencies through sheer volume of output. I’ve averaged about 3-4 posts a day since August when I really started blogging in earnest.
Anyway, thanks to you and your husband for reading. Please don’t hesitate to comment if I’ve been unclear. Also keep in mind that I’m progressing day to day, so what I was clear on in August may no longer be true or applicable.
LikeLike
You have helped me. A lot. I am thankful for your blog.
LikeLike
I’m glad. Sometimes I think back to where I was when I started this blog and shudder. I think I was still hiding from God. But then an amazing thing happened – God started using me to minister to people. My accumulated knowledge came to bear on helping others and I started hearing some of what I was saying to them. God is still working on me, thank God, and this blog has been a big part of it. So I guess what I’m saying is thanks for helping me too.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Me too. I shudder as well. But its a journey. We are all at different stages and different places. I don’t think any of us will ever stop learning and growing. We aren’t here because we have it all figured out, we are here to grow, to understand, to move towards a future that is better than the past.
LikeLike
I am also thankful for your blog, but gave to, sometimes, refer to you (within my own mind) as my Antonym. 🙂
LikeLike
Pingback: No, I Will Not Shut Up | Isle of A Man