Group Discussion Time

Nephila posted several responses to my post yesterday. Now, I’m not going to turn this blog over to Nephila or waste my breathe (keystrokes?) on her every rant. However, I think the comment below is a good conversation starter. Hopefully she will be gratified to see I not only posted it, but gave it a position of prominence on my blog, if only to rebut it. Here it is (edited here only for length) followed by my response to you, the reader, in post form.

I think many of your statements have been harmful to BS because they include blameshifting, victim shaming and reframing to minimise the harm done. Sympathising with cheaters is simply inappropriate. Even my husband says so. I have no expectation you’ll print this but if you commented on my blog I would probably not approve them because, like others who have cheated you cannot help defending your position and attacking others. A lot of it is tone as you’ve accepted before.

The fact you find my truths offensive is a good test. What if I was your sister? You judge just as much as you are judged but the difference is you try to put another name on it.

If your sister found it unacceptable that her husband didn’t blame his OW and still thought well of her, if she saw that as evil and a character flaw, what would you do? Yes, she would be judging *you* but you would also be judging her.

And as I’ve said before, judging is fine. We must judge or else have no distinction between right and wrong. But judging fairly is something else, and in my view a cheater judging a victim is never appropriate.

So I ask you: Have my comments and posts included blameshifting, victim shaming and reframing? I can kind of see her point on “reframing” if one takes that to mean “providing context and allowing for nuance.” However, the other two are groundless unless I’ve seriously deluded myself as to the content of my own blog.

I think her statement here about “my truths” is telling. It’s not “the truth,” but “Nephila’s truth” that I find offensive. More than offensive, I find it sad and pitiable, the output of a broken and diseased mind.

And it’s not about judging, which I agree is fine in a limited sense. We all make judgments about right and wrong, as we should, but the warning of “Judge Not…” is to judge rightly so as not to bring judgement on yourself. This should cause us to be humble, cautious, and merciful in our judgments just as we would like to be judged ourselves when we inevitably screw up. By all means, the scriptures tell us, speak the truth (which requires judgment to discern), but speak it in love.

That a cheater can never judge a victim of cheating is just another of Nephila’s “truths” to which I reply “bullshit.” I have been forgiven by my wife and by my Creator. If I judge wrongly, I am just as wrong as Nephila when she judges me and others wrongly. However, when I do judge, I try to do so with humility, remembering what I have done and been forgiven, and with gentleness, knowing that I don’t have the complete picture.

If I judge a betrayed spouse, I do so with an extra measure of gentleness knowing what they are going through and knowing my position as a reformed adulterer will make certain things hard to hear from me. Most of the time I withhold judgement or keep it to myself. That does not mean, however, that I will or must refrain from sometimes speaking the truth in love to a betrayed spouse.

As for not blaming Scarlet, Nephila’s lack of reading comprehension is showing again. Try reading my post on Temptation and Responsibility again, and then tell me I don’t think Scarlet is 100% responsible for betraying her husband and stealing me from my wife. I am nonetheless 100% responsible for betraying my wife and for stealing Scarlet from her husband.

I have sympathy for Scarlet because she is a broken person in a shitty marriage. I have sympathy for her because I further damaged that marriage, and her as well. If having sympathy for someone is thinking well of them, then I guess I do think well of her (and so does my wife, BTW), but I hope I never am so far gone that I stop having sympathy for other broken people. Yes, that includes Nephila and her husband, too.

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About Anonyman

Recovering adulterer and husband of an awesome wife who has given me a second chance. Sinner and Christian, saved by grace alone. I cuss a lot
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28 Responses to Group Discussion Time

  1. B says:

    she is universally known for writing extensive non-sequitur. Additionally, these comments could easily be lifted directly from that freakish, profit-motivated chump lady. I say resume ignoring.

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    • Anonyman says:

      Oh yes, I’m well acquainted with her extensive record of illogical, misdirected attacks and hate-filled missives. I’m curious who the chump lady is. Is she another blogger?

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      • B says:

        She is a for-profit blogger with a persona like the worst of the worst talk show hosts. Her purpose is to incite rage and she is a master. chumplady.com

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        • Anonyman says:

          It takes a certain type of psychopath to take joy in the deliberate destruction of marriages. I wonder how many women she has harmed with her toxic advice?

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          • B says:

            It’s primarily aimed at women, though not exclusively. She occasionally publishes “letters” from cheaters, and that is where the flames really roar. I think they are made up. She gets hundreds of comments to most every post, I guess the target audience for her commerce. Pretty soon she’ll probably have an agent!

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            • Anonyman says:

              Oh I don’t know, I respond to about 1 in every 20 comments Neph makes. It’s not inconceivable that there are other cheaters out there who get tired of her ilk giving out bad advice and respond, even knowing it won’t do any good.

              I’m actually beyond that with Neph. I know she will never change her mind. I only post her occasional comments so I can either show others that she is not to be believed or listened to, or, like the comment above, to make bigger points about my own recovery.

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          • B says:

            Another feature of that blog is the the slew of snarky code words used. Commenters repeat them like it is “ack ack a dack” from the Flintstones episode about the Water Buffalo Lodge. Blameshifting, kibble, cake eater, etc. I think there may even be a ChumpLadySpeak–>English dictionary on the site.

            Liked by 1 person

  2. 15gen says:

    “like others who have cheated you cannot help defending your position and attacking others.” I’m baffled by this statement. I’ve never heard you blame anyone but yourself for your affair. I’ve never heard you defend your position to have an affair.
    Maybe she likes to stir the pot. To steal a line from Walt Disney “LET IT GO”.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Let go says:

    Chump Lady is a blog for people who have been cheated on, gaslighted, lied to, by narcissistic spouses. It would take you a day to read her blog but worth your time. They would have very little to say good about you because they believe people who can lie and cheat are not redeemable. Some of the horror stories make you understand why her blog has over a million hits. She was cheated on, and badly hurt by it, so the blog is to have a place where “chumps” can go.

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    • Anonyman says:

      I doubt it is worth anyone’s time, except maybe for a psychologist as a matter of professional curiosity. From what little I’ve seen, it’s an example of the toxic sort of support betrayed spouses get from people who don’t heal.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Let go says:

    If you and your wife have healed your marriage you don’t need her blog but there are many who do.

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    • Anonyman says:

      I disagree. That is like saying if you’ve recovered from your affair you don’t need to get drunk, but there are many who do need to get shit-faced to get them through. Alcoholism is no more a solution to betrayal than her blog is, and I’d argue the two are counter-productive. That site is explicitly against reconciliation and forgiveness. That may be what some BS want to hear, but it’s not what they need to hear.

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  5. Let go says:

    What would you do if your wife had one, or more affairs, lied to you for years and had you so crazy you did not know which end was up? Then you stumble onto her blog and there is an explanation for exactly what had been done to you. There are people on her blog who say she has actually saved their sanity and their lives. Why would you deny them that?

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    • Anonyman says:

      People say the same thing about drugs and alcohol. But there are better ways to deal with it, ways that are not toxic. It’s not so much about denying that to betrayed spouses as saying “There are far better ways to deal with what you’re going through.” My wife found them after my affair and it was not hard to do. Fortunately she stayed away from sites like chumplady.com and only went to sites that supported the betrayed spouse without destroying the cheater or the marriage.

      I know we aren’t going to agree on this. We seem to keep having the same conversation over and over in which you try to get me to see my wife’s pain. I know you still think I would agree with you, Neph, and PW if I would just see that I’ve hurt my wife or if I could just see it more clearly. And I keep telling you I see just fine – it’s your conclusions that are wrong. We are at an impasse, I’m afraid, unless you’re willing to admit that my wife and I have better perspective into our marriage than you do.

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  6. Let go says:

    I don’t disagree with you. I think you are one of those people who made an egregious mistake, feel remorse and have worked hard to repair your marriage. What I see are three camps on all these blogs. One has cheaters who band together to support each other and the second has betrayed spouses who are in enormous pain but are still working on their marriages. The third are blogs of people who have been cheated on and abandoned, or cheated on and then left the marriage. If a blog helps someone get past some of the pain then where is the fault? I don’t know one thing about you other than what you post but I see some movement in you toward aligning yourself with selfrighteous cheaters whose arrogance is awesome, and not in a good way. I am not Nephila. Her pain has followed her from her childhood so when she blows up at you and others I feel so badly for her. It appears she has not had many men in her life she can trust. From what you write your wife trusts you. That is wonderful news. I hope you have years of real happiness together.

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  7. Anonyman says:

    I hope you’re wrong. I definitely don’t want to become self-righteous or arrogant, and certainly not about what I’ve done. I admit that I’m becoming a bit more assertive towards people who hate on cheaters, such as myself, who are trying to do the right thing. I do apologize if it is verging on a certain kind of arrogance. That is not my intention at all. In essentials – my taking the full blame, my repentance, etc – I hope I am unchanged.

    I know you’re not Neph and I didn’t mean to imply that you are. I mention her because she seems to be the head cheerleader for the “they don’t get it” crowd – as though the only possible reason for a difference of opinion is because their opponents just don’t get it.

    Anyway, I think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on chumplady. I don’t see you endorsing everything she says (fortunately) but I hear you saying she can do some good for some betrayed spouses. I’ll concede the point, but I still think the “other” isn’t worth the good, especially since there are better blogs out there.

    By the way, and this is totally off-topic, when you reply are you replying to my post or to my comment? I ask because when viewed in a browser, our conversation hasn’t nested properly and instead looks like a series of conversations. I’m not sure if this is a quirk of the reader, mobile app, or what.

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  8. Let go says:

    I try to keep it as a conversation. Sometimes, in the midst of answering, I go back to read your post and that may be the problem.
    It is unusual to find remorseful men blogging. Especially articulate enough to get the amount of interest you do. I read that WordPress has 400,000 bloggers. Wow! Don’t know if it true or not but that many people out there makes compelling reading.
    I know you have to keep your anonymity but can you give pointers on how you and your wife managed what so many couples cannot? Thanks.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. bubsyd says:

    I think it’s funny how you say at the begining of your post that you don’t want to waste time on Nephila’s every rant but then you proceed to rant about her. It seems to me that you rant about her a lot on your blog in fact, and you and your “friends” congregate here to have a good old fashioned bullying session at her expense. I’m sure she’s not bothered but your blog is at risk of becoming something other than what you want it to be. It’s distasteful. If you don’t like her then why not just ignore her?! I think there’s more to it than meets the eye and I imagine she’s hit a nerve or two. As for blame shifting, I think I read somewhere on your blog about you being “tempted by the devil” or words to that effect. Perhaps that could be considered as blame shifting? It’s just cop out.

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    • Anonyman says:

      Do you have no idea how hilarious it is to complain about us bullying Neph? She is easily the biggest bully I’ve seen on WordPress. I’m sorry a group of her victims talking about her bullying looks like bullying to you, but it is not. Besides, this post is not about Neph and the majority of the comments have been about chump lady. Unless you just admitted that chump lady is Neph, which is plausible

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    • I’m not sure you truly understand how unstable she is, bubsyd. Anyone who has been exposed to her true self are disturbed by what they find, and believe me her “friends” in the blogosphere have no idea what she is really like. It is not until you find 30 or 40 comments a night in your spam folder, written in response to imaginary insults, that you grasp the level of disturbance that lies at her core. If any of you saw what she was truly like, I’m not sure you would defend her, fellow BS or not. What you would do is recommend she get help for what is clearly a serious psychologic problem

      Liked by 1 person

  10. bubsyd says:

    I’m glad my comment amused you. In the same vein I think it’s hilarious that you call yourself a Christian. There doesn’t seem to much about you that’s particularly Christian (especially towards people who disagree with you) other than your ability to recite scripture.

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    • Anonyman says:

      There are several people who comment here with whom I disagree. Neph goes beyond disagreement to full on trolling nastiness. For example check out her recent comment on God Doesn’t Make Mistakes – a post that has nothing to do with affairs. She doesn’t need a pretext to attack, because that is all she is interested in doing.

      I admit I have not always behaved towards her in a Christian manner, but she is the one exception, not the rule. Nevertheless, I should treat all enemies with love and in that I have been inconsistent. As for acting like a Christian in general, I’m not sure what you expect from Christians. Please explain what you feel marks some as Christians and others as false Christians.

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    • You need to take a step back on Nephila, Bubsyd. Finding her behavior abhorrent and/or sad and in need of clinical help has nothing to do with being Christian or being involved in an affair. In fact, anyone who is Christian should be urging her to get psychologic care

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  11. I found a most interesting comment in my spam box the other day. I quote: ‘A cheat is only reaping what he sows’. So apparently, the fact I cheated on him doesn’t matter. Only the ‘innocent’ victim mattered. Interesting judgement right there. How would I or she know Mrs Max hadn’t cheated on Max? Perhaps she isn’t innocent? How does that make it more right? Cheating is cheating. Sin is sin. We may feel differently towards the people but there is only one truth. Truth doesn’t change with the ‘who’, truth remains the same. ~sigh~ I pray she finds love for herself, because if we can see past her comments, inside lies a very broken woman.

    Liked by 2 people

  12. I used to get worked up by her now and then or find an interesting comment to respond to, but it has taken some distance to realize I was feeding a beast. A very unhealthy beast, a woman with a serious psychologic disorder. It was like handing a cutter a knife. The fact of the matter is she is not worth anything but sympathy and the hope she will get help for her problem, which I don’t think stems from her husband’s infidelity, but from some longstanding insults from childhood.

    In reality I think she does many BS a great harm, by constantly reminding them of the hurt they have endured when they try to move forward. She hates it when they look like they may be moving on or healing. I don’t think she genuinely wishes them harm, she just doesn’t want anyone to feel better than she does or to forgive something she can’t forgive

    You have been nothing but honest and human on your blog. Loving your wife and not wishing Scarlet harm is the most Christian approach to this situation you can take. It is the most human approach you can take. And it is honest. Too many wives insist on their husbands hating their APs, then believe it is true when they say anything to keep their marriage intact. You have had a similar experience as I have–an affair can be a mistake without someone being the villain, with sympathy for the person you cared about at a dark time who cared about you as well.

    Liked by 3 people

  13. damagedbytheageof3 says:

    I still truly cannot understand why you give the woman airtime? The whole point of blocking is to ignore them, not delve into your spambox and make them the main attraction in your next post. Bubsy is an unqualified doctor – she’s diagnosed Aspergers in her husband since she discovered her husbands one night stand. No marital diagnosis – just one for him.

    Like

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